Chinese circle hooks.

[chesilpete]

For clarity, from my perspective Pete the point was to establish if they are well made ( or at least some) at the price point compared to more expensive hooks which you would hope would be of better quality, but so far have found both fit for purpose which did not really expect. Have had branded hooks snap on the lift of decent fish but these things happen, also for type of fishing I do it is an advantage for a hook to bend when pulling for a brake in heavy kelp with braid, which again some branded hooks will do but under severe stress. The price difference is actually nearer £50 than a “quid”in what I experienced and numbers involved which provoked my personal thoughts and post.
Clearly to buy substandard or cheap anything been false economy but to me £50 is a huge difference and trying to establish some facts, for last decade used varivas hooks and very happy.
Have listened to several heated debates on the merits and prices of afaw rods and provenance of the blanks and profit margins which all was very ( to me) interesting.
Not loyal to any particular brand of rod and use century and afaw at moment as they do what I want and we’re handy to buy at time. Hope this gives perspective to Post 1.

I get your post above, but I don't see any sense in compromising on hooks.
I think in life in general you get what you pay for.
Interestingly the only hooks I have dropped from my list of hooks I like are the Varivas ones. I felt they had a real drop in quality a couple of years ago and they could lose their sharpness after a single chuck on the shingle at Chesil.
I also snapped a BMX using 18lb line and that made me stop buying them.
I know if I buy a cox n rawle hook it's going to be decent same with Kamasan.
Sure they mostly pour outa a shed in Asia but at least someone who knows a lot about hooks looks at them before I buy them and that gives me some confidence I cannot get from a chinese online vendor.

AFAW rods is an entirely different subject, I just hate the fact that they don't put made in China on the blanks I actually like some of the rods and own a pair although they will be going soon.

 

[Cwab]

But do we ?

Guess all folks can do is buy the best they can afford within their understanding though guess we all know some who could afford the best ( whatever that is) and refuse to do so.
Tonights fuel and bait expenses just shy of £100 but on a mission and will travel a bit further than normal but don’t give a hoot
Pennel rig will be used with top hook 5/0 circle (who flung dung made ) and bottom think varivas 6/0 extra and would wager top hook will do the bisso if can find the fish and sea allows. Hey ho!

 

[Cwab]

I get your post above, but I don't see any sense in compromising on hooks.
I think in life in general you get what you pay for.
Interestingly the only hooks I have dropped from my list of hooks I like are the Varivas ones. I felt they had a real drop in quality a couple of years ago and they could lose their sharpness after a single chuck on the shingle at Chesil.
I also snapped a BMX using 18lb line and that made me stop buying them.
I know if I buy a cox n rawle hook it's going to be decent same with Kamasan.
Sure they mostly pour outa a shed in Asia but at least someone who knows a lot about hooks looks at them before I buy them and that gives me some confidence I cannot get from a chinese online vendor.

AFAW rods is an entirely different subject, I just hate the fact that they don't put made in China on the blanks I actually like some of the rods and own a pair although they will be going soon.

Good to know about the varivas as bought a fair few and still have some left from an age ago, was looking at the cox and rawle circles on their site as a contender for next purchase.

 

[GPSguru]

Good to know about the varivas as bought a fair view and still have some left from an age ago, was looking at the cox and rawle circles on their site as a contender for next purchase.

What size circles do you use ?

 

[Cwab]

What size circles do you use ?

5/0 currently but may go up to 6/0 maybe

 

[Angrybear]

Aliexpress is just the "shop front" a bit like amazon, who promote the various factories.
Much of the kit is the same as branded, but out the backdoor of the factory, equally some can be seconds & others complete fakes, the risk is which is which, & that if it gets "lost in transit" you don't have much come back.

As for 'compromising' with a cheap hook etc, how do you or I know our brand name hook doesn't come from the same place in bulk, to be repackaged & sold on as (insert brand) ?
Inspect what you tie on, & if you're happy with it, use it.

 

[Cwab]

ones I have bought and acquired from a friend came from same source which just a outfit in deepest darkest china or led to believe that and from ebay and did not expect much but was pleasantly surprised and later border line shocked at how reliable thus far.
If to be super critical some sharper than others but all acceptable and on par with branded names including full closure of hook eye. For me it’s the not knowing of what’s what in world of hooks and if I can save £50 without compromising perceived quality makes sense to me. End of day pays your money and take your pick, be nice to know but don’t think anyone would dish the dirt.

 

[blakdog is back]

At least with Temu if you are careful on what you buy, they do give refunds as well.

Try to do too many and you will learn that they too can be difficult. Incidentally Amazon are the same if you get habitually send stuff back. its expensive so they don't like you to do too much of it.

 

[blakdog is back]

As for 'compromising' with a cheap hook etc, how do you or I know our brand name hook doesn't come from the same place in bulk, to be repackaged & sold on as (insert brand) ?
Inspect what you tie on, & if you're happy with it, use it.

As I keep saying ... the difference with a western supplier/brand is that their name (and reputation) is on it and there is comeback in the UK thanks to the very good consumer protection we have here. It's logical for a UK distributor to check quality before purchase because returns and bad press are going to cost them money. I suppose you might be lucky to get the same thing but given the profitability in outlets like Aliexpress you are a whole lot more likely to be getting the batches that failed quality control or have been declined over quality by a western supplier.

People can kid themselves if that makes them feel better but its important to shop with the brains as well as the eyes, the eyes don't always give you the full story.

 

[Cwab]

As I keep saying ... the difference with a western supplier/brand is that their name (and reputation) is on it and there is comeback in the UK thanks to the very good consumer protection we have here. It's logical for a UK distributor to check quality before purchase because returns and bad press are going to cost them money. I suppose you might be lucky to get the same thing but given the profitability in outlets like Aliexpress you are a whole lot more likely to be getting the batches that failed quality control or have been declined over quality by a western supplier.

People can kid themselves if that makes them feel better but its important to shop with the brains as well as the eyes, the eyes don't always give you the full story.

The most annoying thing for me in some senses is I don’t want to like the ones I have but cannot fault for what I use them for,which is fishing into heavy kelp beds, and rough ground with heavy tackle losses and dragging fish through kelp and quite thought provoking as to how reliable. But at end of day purchaser beware and a fool and his money are easily parted
no big deal at end of day.

 

[groundswell]

Guess all folks can do is buy the best they can afford within their understanding though guess we all know some who could afford the best ( whatever that is) and refuse to do so.
Tonights fuel and bait expenses just shy of £100 but on a mission and will travel a bit further than normal but don’t give a hoot
Pennel rig will be used with top hook 5/0 circle (who flung dung made ) and bottom think varivas 6/0 extra and would wager top hook will do the bisso if can find the fish and sea allows. Hey ho!

You can buy the dearest of rods and reels but if they do not suit the venues or species they are no use to man nor beast, but in relation to hooks the price has got out of hand, packets with smaller and smaller amounts in them, hooks with 3x wire in size 2/0's for fish like wrasse, cod, bass, smoothies it is time they started doing hooks in normal wire in these patterns for run of the mill fish because that is what they are at sensible prices and in bulk amounts if needs be

 

[Beach]

Try to do too many and you will learn that they too can be difficult. Incidentally Amazon are the same if you get habitually send stuff back. its expensive so they don't like you to do too much of it.

We have Amazon Prime so never pay for returns, sometimes they say keep the item and give us a full refund. Works just fine for us

 

[Beach]

Aliexpress is just the "shop front" a bit like amazon, who promote the various factories.
Much of the kit is the same as branded, but out the backdoor of the factory, equally some can be seconds & others complete fakes, the risk is which is which, & that if it gets "lost in transit" you don't have much come back.

As for 'compromising' with a cheap hook etc, how do you or I know our brand name hook doesn't come from the same place in bulk, to be repackaged & sold on as (insert brand) ?
Inspect what you tie on, & if you're happy with it, use it.

If you have a Premium account with Amazon you won't have the problem, worst scenario is to tel them on the free phone number giving the order number and they actually sort it for you or refund your costs, never had a problem with them although I can't say that for other companies: Always found Apple tech support very good as well

 

[Where’s Wally]

Here we go again.

So you want negatives ... the first has to be that you are NEVER buying from someone that has any input into the end product they are selling. You may be told you are buying from a manufacturer or that stuff is made to their spec but in China that doesn't happen with the small scale sellers ... and most of the people you will be dealing with for orders of consumer quantities are going to be small. Even on a fairly large scale you are dealing with middle men who source the products you want on demand at as near to the spec you want. Its very common to put in repeat orders and end up with a piece of kit from a completely different manufacturer so when you do find a good quality product there is no promise that the next order will be same.

If you are buying from a large western distributor they will be selling Chinese made products but are much more likely to be dealing directly with the factory that makes it as they are ordering numbers that only a large manufacturer has the capacity (or financial capacity) to provide. The other advantage of buying from a western importer is the fact that they are bound by western laws ... people forget that when you buy from a UK company you qualify for (highly beneficial) UK consumer protection whereas when you buy from China you pretty much get no consumer protection whatsoever. And before anybody jumps in about the guarantees on the likes of Aliexpress ... they are rarely something you can depend on, in my experience Chinese companies are general very hostile to making refunds.

People constantly bang on about western sellers ripping people off but a part of that extra price relates to all the costs involved in being a western retailer ... we get everything from import duty (larger commercial imports do not slip under the net like your couple of hundred hooks) to having to charge VAT and a UK postage charge. The Chinese get a government subsidised postal service and don't care if it falls to bits 5 minutes after arriving.

Ultimately not much of a risk on small things but I don't see the sense in taking risks on more expensive stuff ... and I wouldn't trust any western brand for sale on a Chinese site such as Aliexpress ... so many people will argue the sky is green with red dots before they will admit that they are buying fakes but that won't change the facts ... if its a European, US, Japanese brand for sale in China it's a fake ... simple as.

I buy job lots of fly tying gear from time to time. Occasionally I come across some Partridge hooks. The are in beautiful little boxes with some kind of manila paper, lightly oiled and all have the batch number, packed by, and checked by, on their boxes.
It’s crazy how what was once taken for granted is now little more than a note from history. Sad really

 

[J Richards]

Good to know about the varivas as bought a fair few and still have some left from an age ago, was looking at the cox and rawle circles on their site as a contender for next purchase.

Cox & Rawle are lovely. Use all there range of bigger J, circles etc. have owed VMO and same opinion as @chesilpete just look at them and they blunt.

 

[blakdog is back]

I buy job lots of fly tying gear from time to time. Occasionally I come across some Partridge hooks. The are in beautiful little boxes with some kind of manila paper, lightly oiled and all have the batch number, packed by, and checked by, on their boxes.
It’s crazy how what was once taken for granted is now little more than a note from history. Sad really

They were reshowing an episode of Out of Town on Talking Pictures I think last week and Jack was visiting the Partridge factory back in 1981 ... they were the last remaining hook maker in Redditch by then. They use to make some fantastic hooks.

 

[chesilpete]

If you ever go the cox and rawle warehouse they still have those old partridge patterns in packets so old I reckon Jack may have been the last bloke to touch them!

 

[Topwater]

They were reshowing an episode of Out of Town on Talking Pictures I think last week and Jack was visiting the Partridge factory back in 1981 ... they were the last remaining hook maker in Redditch by then. They use to make some fantastic hooks.

They did but particularly towards the end of UK production they also made some absolute crap! They looked good in the packet but would not pass the tying vice testing 'flick' - over tempered that snaped clen off at the barb or seemingly completely untempered that bent like liquorice. Undoubtedly, in the field of flytying which was their main market by far, that was their downfall. I think it's easy to have a glassy eyed recollection on tackle over time. The Chinese made Mustad and BKK hooks, sourced from legitimate suppliers, have been good so far but as with anything produced in such numbers you have to do a bit of QC yourself and know how to sharpen them to your preference. I don't believe in cutting corners particularly on the last and crucial connection.

 

[Cwab]

Love these bad boys still got about a hundred, razor sharp and oh so strong, but maybe my faith is misplaced?
Edit, 200 plus remaining and oft pondered the logo

 

[Cwab]

If you ever go the cox and rawle warehouse they still have those old partridge patterns in packets so old I reckon Jack may have been the last bloke to touch them!

Might add provenance and value at auction, rip Jack.