Asso tapered line?

[crablante]

I use braid to a 60lb mono leader with no issues, no mental casting distances (100-120 yds) using a 6 and bait FS rod and various fixed spools.
It took me a good few crack off over a few days to get my leader length just right, and for me it's the shorter ones that won.
The leader is now about 11 uds at most I think, maybe shorter.
It's the drop, rod length and about 6-8 times round the spool.
I do use an fg knot to join the braid to leader and have not had any crack off or problems since getting the leader length right.

As I say, this works for my setup and casting style so may not work for you.
The fg knot is surprisingly easy to tie, it just takes abit of practice at home.
In all fairness I've yet to snap an fg knot on a beach, but have tied them on boats a few times, only takes a couple of minutes once you know how to do it.
Only downside is with 65lb braid and 60lb leader, pulling for a break is bloody hard work! I've had the mono leader snap and the fg knot still in tact.

What's a UDS?

I agree with the FG knot - once you get the muscle memory it's a quick and very strong knot. I've only used it twice and both times it cracked off at the 20lb braid - this setup is just not suited the rods I'm using and maybe the way I'm casting.

 

[Angrybear]

All I am going to say is this.....
When a bloke says I am doing "this" and it's does not work for me....... advice saying "I do exactly what does not work for him" is a bit pointless.

Sorry, but where is anyone doing that ?

 

[Angrybear]

What's a UDS?

It's meant to say yds not uds, fairly obviously.

I had to look up that FG knot it's a new one on me, my issue with that would be the same as my issue with the albright knot, in that both give quite a long & stiff knot section.
With a FS reel the line pulls off the front edge in coils, unlike with a multiplier where it it just pulls off as a straight flat line,
With those coils if you have a sudden length that is stiffer due to the length of knot it's clearly going to disrupt the smooth flow of the line coils through the rings, which could cause the snap off.
OTOH if you have nice short knot (like the std shock leader knot) it should not disrupt the flow of the loops in the same way, so it should pass through the rings without issue while the doubled length of braid increases the knot strength but is no stiffer than the single.

Hope that makes sense to you.

 

[chesilpete]

I've tried something similar (80/60lb shock leader to 20lb braid using an FG knot) - twice - both times it cracked off. Thankfully I lost nothing because I had (practice) cast along the length of the beach.

My problem (as @chesilpete has already pointed) seems to be the very light rods I'm using and their relatively small guides. I'll stick to using this Asso line for now, along with a tapered leader when using braid.

BTW I am a huge fan of KISS! I would say what I'm doing is KISS with minimum drama

Lol keep it simple stupid.... only one stupid person on this thread simply put.

 

[crablante]

It's meant to say yds not uds, fairly obviously.

I had to look up that FG knot it's a new one on me, my issue with that would be the same as my issue with the albright knot, in that both give quite a long & stiff knot section.
With a FS reel the line pulls off the front edge in coils, unlike with a multiplier where it it just pulls off as a straight flat line,
With those coils if you have a sudden length that is stiffer due to the length of knot it's clearly going to disrupt the smooth flow of the line coils through the rings, which could cause the snap off.
OTOH if you have nice short knot (like the std shock leader knot) it should not disrupt the flow of the loops in the same way, so it should pass through the rings without issue while the doubled length of braid increases the knot strength but is no stiffer than the single.

Hope that makes sense to you.

I'm all about the metric system - I had zero chance of deciphering that

It does make sense - you've explained it really well - thank you. I'll try what you've suggested too. I totally agree; the FG knot is very stiff. I'd say my Albright knots (although stiff) are really small and tidy because I use them with the tapered leader BUT maybe they're still an issue.

 

[crablante]

Lol keep it simple stupid.... only one stupid person on this thread simply put.

Did you think I meant the band KISS?

 

[crablante]

My best advice is bin 60m of braid and use the reel with a couple of mm underspooled and put the knot at the bottom.

 

[chesilpete]

Did you think I meant the band KISS?

nope I meant bear mammarys post .... your sensible and have a clue so def not you.

 

[crablante]

nope I meant bear mammarys post .... your sensible and have a clue so def not you.

Guys! Make love not war; it's just fishing

Jokes aside - I do appreciate all your input.

 

[Angrybear]

I'm all about the metric system - I had zero chance of deciphering that

It does make sense - you've explained it really well - thank you. I'll try what you've suggested too. I totally agree; the FG knot is very stiff. I'd say my Albright knots (although stiff) are really small and tidy because I use them with the tapered leader BUT maybe they're still an issue.

Sorry, my fault for not being clear, the Albright is just not a very good knot for thin mono, although it's fine for heavier line as kind of a 'poor mans' Bimini twist.
Before "superbraid" we used to boat fish strong tides with stainless wire mainlines & used the albright to tie on a leader .
There are many, many knots some of which are years old which are fantastic for one use but not for another, or were developed for heavier line & don't work with thin line (or vice versa).

For joining 2 thin lines the best knot is the full blood knot,
the knot in your post #27 is a 'busy' version of a std shock leader knot (for tying a heavy leader to a thin running line) which might work better when using braid, than the std mono knot version,
although as I've already said I just double the last 40-50cm of braid & tie the same knots as I would with mono.

 

[Topwater]

Hang on! The Bimini Twist is used to create a doubled line in the thinner of two lines to be connected. This 'double' can then be used in forming joining knots like the Albright, Alberto etc etc with heavier lines like mono leader. To a large extent methods like FG, PR and splicing mono up the centre of hollow core braids have replaced the Bimini in the big game fishing field it was developed for.

The full bloodknot is certainly not my choice of joining lines unless you are specifically wanting to use the tag/s ends as stand off droppers and have a good margin of breaking strength (in both lines) for the fish you intend to encounter. I'd recommend a 4 turn waterknot (formed with a large loop allowing you to pass a spool through if needed) or back to back uni knots - both of which are considerably stronger than the bloodknot.

A good maxim is the thinner the line the more turns you should use in forming any knot. By the same token, thicker lines allow you to use less turns.

 

[OldGreyDog]

Isual heavy, for me that is, surf rig is 13’AFAW 4+bait, Shim’ ultegra 5500, 30 lbs braid and a 50/60 lbs length of mono as a leader tied on with an FG knot. The leader knot stays where it ended up from the previous cast and theres a snick/click as the knot goes through the guides. The snick/click varies in intensity depending on where on the spool the knot was, and/or how hard i’ve hit the cast, but its never been a problem and I can’t remember the last time I had a crack-off at the knot. I have let go without remembering to open the bail a couple of times though

 

[Angrybear]

A good maxim is the thinner the line the more turns you should use in forming any knot. By the same token, thicker lines allow you to use less turns.

Yet I remember a "Sea Angler" knot guide that said 5 turns maximum for blood/uni knots in thin mono,
Also a number of books, like my "Encyclopedia of Fishing", that state 4-5 turns

I guess this is just different schools of thought, but I'm sticking with the 4-5 turns I've always used.

 

[Topwater]

Yet I remember a "Sea Angler" knot guide that said 5 turns maximum for blood/uni knots in thin mono,
Also a number of books, like my "Encyclopedia of Fishing", that state 4-5 turns

I guess this is just different schools of thought, but I'm sticking with the 4-5 turns I've always used.

Do as you think best Mr Angry but whatever you do don't bother to put your hands up and admit when you are wrong though eh? I'll continue to correct you when you give out bad and plainly incorrect advice. Whilst your reading the adverts in Sea Angler and quoting from beginers guide books, I'll continue to advise others based on my 50 plus years of actual fishing experience that includes over three decades as a professional ghillie. Last week we were trolling for BFT with stand up gear 130lb braid mainline and 400lb mono to the hooks. This week we've been trotting for grayling with spliced tip match rods, centrepin reels and hook lengths down to 2.5lb. (And not once did anyone use a blood knot by the way....)
Now Im not saying I know it all, nobody does and nobody can, nor that there's only one way to skin a cat, but I can say that for absolute certain that I've forgotten more about angling than you know so wind your neck in, admit when you're wrong and stop pretending to be the expert - your description of the Albright as a 'poor man's bimini' showed you are a BS'ing buffoon. Get a grip, do some fishing, actually learn something for yourself maybe?

 

[flappy]

Well that was fun wasn’t it boys and girls..

 

[crablante]

In case it matters - an example of my knots - they look ok right?

This FG example is 40lb braid to 80lb mono - I haven't used this BUT I have used an FG with 20lb braid to 80lb (or it might have been 60lb) leader and it cracked off twice at the braid. I think the light rod with small guides I'd been using isn't FG compatible (?).

The Albright (appox. 15-20 wraps) is 20lb braid to 18lb (to 65lb) tapered leader BUT it's more like the 25-30lb section because I've reused the leader so much.

Like I've said already - depending on the situation and how I'm feeling - I'll keep using the Asso tapered line OR braid with a tapered leader and place the knot at the base of the spool.

 

[Angrybear]

Do as you think best Mr Angry but whatever you do don't bother to put your hands up and admit when you are wrong though eh? I'll continue to correct you when you give out bad and plainly incorrect advice. Whilst your reading the adverts in Sea Angler and quoting from beginers guide books, I'll continue to advise others based on my 50 plus years of actual fishing experience that includes over three decades as a professional ghillie. Last week we were trolling for BFT with stand up gear 130lb braid mainline and 400lb mono to the hooks. This week we've been trotting for grayling with spliced tip match rods, centrepin reels and hook lengths down to 2.5lb. (And not once did anyone use a blood knot by the way....)
Now Im not saying I know it all, nobody does and nobody can, nor that there's only one way to skin a cat, but I can say that for absolute certain that I've forgotten more about angling than you know so wind your neck in, admit when you're wrong and stop pretending to be the expert - your description of the Albright as a 'poor man's bimini' showed you are a BS'ing buffoon. Get a grip, do some fishing, actually learn something for yourself maybe?

Lucky old you, I've also got about 50 years actual experience since first being taught to fly fish at school in the mid 70's, (I doubt that happens today) was lucky enough to start Big game fishing in the late 90's at Ascension Island, never had the pleasure of trotting for Grayling mind.

The mere fact that you refer to an excellent reference book as a "beginners guide" tells me much and you must indeed have forgotten as large an amount as you claim, please feel free to continue believing you know better than anyone who dares to hold a different opinion, Just as I shall continue to join my tapered leaders with full bloodknots, & tie on my hooks with tucked half bloodknots.

Oh, and it's Mr Bear .

As an aside I still find it surprising there isn't a knot tying guide/thread on here.

 

[chesilpete]

@crablante
Top water is right Mr bare is full of amazing advice!.

So now I will put my tin hat on!!!.

Your knots are fabulous but fkin big.
Sometimes it's not about what's right and technically perfect it's about what works and getting the job done simply.
You need to get that knot size down to avoid the problem.
Try a four turn grinner on the nylon to a six turn grinner on the braid and tighten it up carefully with loads of spit.
Pull on it as hard as you can, if it snaps go again until you get a good one.
The knot is tiny.
Sure it's not 100% efficient but that leader knot is going to be on the spool when you have a fish at your feet.
You rod no matter how powerful will not be able to put more than 8lb onto that knot so manage the situation accordingly.
It's not an ideal solution and I am 100% suggesting you compromise the strength of the knot but I do use exactly this knot on Chesil to help avoid crack offs.
What I think happens is the braid bites into the nylon so hard that that's where the strength is....
Try it and see what you think I doubt you will break it and if you can't then it's got to be good to go IMO.
Right I have made my confession and am ready for the backlash.

 

[Topwater]

Lucky old you, I've also got about 50 years actual experience since first being taught to fly fish at school in the mid 70's, (I doubt that happens today) was lucky enough to start Big game fishing in the late 90's at Ascension Island, never had the pleasure of trotting for Grayling mind.

The mere fact that you refer to an excellent reference book as a "beginners guide" tells me much and you must indeed have forgotten as large an amount as you claim, please feel free to continue believing you know better than anyone who dares to hold a different opinion, Just as I shall continue to join my tapered leaders with full bloodknots, & tie on my hooks with tucked half bloodknots.

Oh, and it's Mr Bear .

As an aside I still find it surprising there isn't a knot tying guide/thread on here.

You continue to avoid the crux of the matter, namely that you are wrong but refuse to admit so. Go stick your ego up your arris where it belongs Mr Angry Bull

 

[Craig]

In case it matters - an example of my knots - they look ok right?

This FG example is 40lb braid to 80lb mono - I haven't used this BUT I have used an FG with 20lb braid to 80lb (or it might have been 60lb) leader and it cracked off twice at the braid. I think the light rod with small guides I'd been using isn't FG compatible (?).

The Albright (appox. 15-20 wraps) is 20lb braid to 18lb (to 65lb) tapered leader BUT it's more like the 25-30lb section because I've reused the leader so much.

Like I've said already - depending on the situation and how I'm feeling - I'll keep using the Asso tapered line OR braid with a tapered leader and place the knot at the base of the spool.

Those knots look good to me, only thing I would change with the fg is to put a few overhand knots up the braid tight behind the end of the mono to help build a ramp so it's smoother through the guides.

Regarding the crack offs with braid to mono, have you tried varying the length of the mono leader?
I used to use a long leader fishing off the rocks as I wanted something fairly thick to pull fish up and as a bit of cushioning.
Turns out I was totally wrong, this resulted in crack offs, the shorter it got, the more casts o got before any problems.
As I said before, I use a fairly short mono leader now and haven't had a crack off for longer than I care to remember.