Shock leaders.

[Trampster]

OK Guys, first enquiry on here! I bought a Grauvell Vertix Dragon F/S Reel to pair with my Excellent Vertix Jack conti rod. I tried Braid but got so many wind knots I went back to 23Lb mono + 60Lb shock leader on the spare spool. Everything in life was fine. I can't for the life of me remember what knot I used for the mono to shock leader, but I recently lost the lot so have had to replace the leader. I used a double Uni knot, and found that it is catching when going around the bail arm roller as the clearance on the reel is very small.

Any suggestions on knots - mono to shockleader?

Would I be better off with a tapered leader instead of 60Lb straight through?

Now looking at buying a better reel, would like a Penn Surfblaster, but everyone seems to be out of stock of the Surfblaster II - If I was to buy secondhand, is there much difference between the Surfblaster & the Surfblaster II? Budget is limited so 2nd hand would probably be No. 1 plan!

Thanks in advance ma Buteys! Dave.

 

[Mr Fish]

Tapered leader would be okay for clean ground I guess?
I’m not a big fan because the ones I tried years ago had very little thick part and would regularly snap near the knot no matter how careful I was to try and cut and match the line strengths before tying.
That was a brand one too, can’t remember the name but it was a top brand. Some time ago now, mind.
But people do use them okay so I guess they have their place.

I personally just buy a spool or average 60lb and use that. Knot is a half tucked blood or uni to half hitch, very basic but doesn’t usually let me down and certainly not with a fish on.
Whether that will get through your bail arm is another question, so you might need the tapered option in any case?

Someone will be along soon to say use braid but I can’t get on with it, just too sensitive for me, I don’t need to see every wave pull and crab fart!

 

[Mukiwa]

Aaaaaand here I am about braid lol, I love it, but the wind knots come down the reel and line lay.

Penn surf , don't like any penn FS, but that me .

You won't go wrong with ultegra , shimarno, , slow osalation making the perfect line lay.

I don't use leaders anymore , braid straight though.

When I did use talented, as mr Fish said, I cut back the leader found it to be better.

 

[Trampster]

Thanks Mr Fishy! I've been looking at knots again this morning and I think I'll try that Uni to half hitch, though I can't see there will be much difference in the diameter in the finished knot. I've always been wary of tapered shock leaders, partly because you cannot select the length unless you trim a couple of metres off the end of the taper which is wasteful. I allow about 8-9 metres for a shock leader on a 4.5 Metre conti rod which gives me 2 metres drop, 4.5 metres for the length of the rod, plus a few turns around the reel.

I tried but couldn't get on with Braid. That Vertix Dragon is a great casting reel (until the issue with the bail arm roller arose) but with Braid, it was a wind knot every other cast, usually halfway between the rod tip & the end tackle when I had cast out. Annoying, because with a decent cast, you only found the wind knot after you had reeled halfway in! I tried allsorts - made sure the spool wasn't to full, double checked for any tangles around rings before casting etc. I wanted to just go & fish, not spend most of my time doing the Boy Scout bit & untying knots!

 

[Trampster]

Aaaaaand here I am about braid lol, I love it, but the wind knots come down the reel and line lay.

Penn surf , don't like any penn FS, but that me .

You won't go wrong with ultegra , shimarno, , slow osalation making the perfect line lay.

I don't use leaders anymore , braid straight though.

When I did use talented, as mr Fish said, I cut back the leader found it to be better.

I've always liked Penn gear, although in recent years, a lot of reels & tackle now being made in China are not of the quality they used to be. I've heard a lot of folks say buy Shimano, but I find the sizes confusing, and they are out of my budget with the cheapest coming in at around £150. I just don't fish enough to justify it.

 

[Mr Fish]

Thanks Mr Fishy! I've been looking at knots again this morning and I think I'll try that Uni to half hitch, though I can't see there will be much difference in the diameter in the finished knot. I've always been wary of tapered shock leaders, partly because you cannot select the length unless you trim a couple of metres off the end of the taper which is wasteful. I allow about 8-9 metres for a shock leader on a 4.5 Metre conti rod which gives me 2 metres drop, 4.5 metres for the length of the rod, plus a few turns around the reel.

I tried but couldn't get on with Braid. That Vertix Dragon is a great casting reel (until the issue with the bail arm roller arose) but with Braid, it was a wind knot every other cast, usually halfway between the rod tip & the end tackle when I had cast out. Annoying, because with a decent cast, you only found the wind knot after you had reeled halfway in! I tried allsorts - made sure the spool wasn't to full, double checked for any tangles around rings before casting etc. I wanted to just go & fish, not spend most of my time doing the Boy Scout bit & untying knots!

I usually found that once I’d cut down the tapered leader to what was needed, it just wasn’t long enough.
Some modern brands may be better, mind.

My biggest bug with braid is the nodding dog syndrome. I’ve spent years learning how species bite with mono and can usually tell with a fair degree of accuracy what’s on the end and the best time to strike/lift but the nod nod nod and every little rattle, just don’t need it.

Had it one night surf fishing, as there was braid on one shore multi following a boat trip, completely forgot it was on there.
Other was mono and as a result had to watch one nicely stable rod tip and one that wouldn’t bloody stop moving, including greatly magnified bites from tiny pest fish.
It really wound me up and I would have changed the reel if I’d had a spare or even respooled if I’d had more line

 

[Nottah747]

If you want to try tapered leaders give the trabucco xps ones a go 15mtrs long each 18lb to 70lb 10 to a spool they knot really well plenty long enough to cut back to match my mainline and I use a back to back nail knot which is really small.Never had one fail at the knot.
Pete

 

[Kine262]

I always used to use tapered leaders and although I had the occasional crack off I didn't think it was that bad - until I started using 60lb straight to my reel line, with a half hitch to a uni knot, carefully tied and wet, before teasing carefully down. It was after that when I realised that I had been getting more breaks than I realised, as the number went down by about 80% compared to tapered leaders.
Don't ask me what the difference was, as I really can't tell you. (Well, apart from a massive cost saving!)

 

[Mukiwa]

I've always liked Penn gear, although in recent years, a lot of reels & tackle now being made in China are not of the quality they used to be. I've heard a lot of folks say buy Shimano, but I find the sizes confusing, and they are out of my budget with the cheapest coming in at around £150. I just don't fish enough to justify it.

I used to as well, but then looking at what you get for you money between shansrno and pen are two different things.

I know they are expensive , compared, to penn

 

[Mr Fish]

I always used to use tapered leaders and although I had the occasional crack off I didn't think it was that bad - until I started using 60lb straight to my reel line, with a half hitch to a uni knot, carefully tied and wet, before teasing carefully down. It was after that when I realised that I had been getting more breaks than I realised, as the number went down by about 80% compared to tapered leaders.
Don't ask me what the difference was, as I really can't tell you. (Well, apart from a massive cost saving!)

Yep, that’s all I do, and it’s not even quality 60lb most of the time, just whatever average brand I pick up in the shop, use it for rigs too.

Mind you, a lot of my fishing is also over rock/mixed ground so that was another reason I gave up tapers, as my leaders don’t have the longest life expectancy!

 

[Nottah747]

I always used to use tapered leaders and although I had the occasional crack off I didn't think it was that bad - until I started using 60lb straight to my reel line, with a half hitch to a uni knot, carefully tied and wet, before teasing carefully down. It was after that when I realised that I had been getting more breaks than I realised, as the number went down by about 80% compared to tapered leaders.
Don't ask me what the difference was, as I really can't tell you. (Well, apart from a massive cost saving!)

Like you I had trouble with tapered leaders I used to use Varivas and rovex but to be honest I think it was more to do with the mainline.
after I changed to 12lb Shimano Technium invisitec mainline coupled with the Trabucco tapered leaders the difference was amazing I even struggled to pullout of snags and in the end I've had to use my braid mandrel to wrap round and pull out and I have a lot of confidence in this set up and the biggest bonus is the knot size.
Pete

 

[Nottah747]

I used to as well, but then looking at what you get for you money between shansrno and pen are two different things.

I know they are expensive , compared, to penn

Not quite so expensive when you have to buy a spare spool as a lot of the new Penns (surfblaster2) don't come with a spare so factor in another £25.00 or so then not so much difference as I wouldn't want to go out without at least one spare spool.
Pete

 

[Mukiwa]

Not quite so expensive when you have to buy a spare spool as a lot of the new Penns (surfblaster2) don't come with a spare so factor in another £25.00 or so then not so much difference as I wouldn't want to go out without at least one spare spool.
Pete

That is very true Pete, I just wouldn't buy anything that is not a Shimano. Those ultegra's are just so nice to use , and with braid loving it

 

[Nottah747]

That is very true Pete, I just wouldn't buy anything that is not a Shimano. Those ultegra's are just so nice to use , and with braid loving it

Yeah I usually have two in the box with 5 spools to cover most situations and losses.
Pete

 

[Mukiwa]

Yeah I usually have two in the box with 5 spools to cover most situations and losses.
Pete

I havnt taken my spools out the box yet to use, only coz of all the kit we carry when rose and I go fishing, I know is small, but space a weight lol

 

[Kevin3110]

I’ve got a Shimano Ultegra 14000 XSD and it’s a beautiful reel on my FS Sport, came with an extra spool too and paid £130 ish locally. I do like the tapered shockleaders using either the Asso or Varivas ones though I do have spools with braid straight through, just decide one venue is confirmed normally.

 

[Mukiwa]

I’ve got a Shimano Ultegra 14000 XSD and it’s a beautiful reel on my FS Sport, came with an extra spool too and paid £130 ish locally. I do like the tapered shockleaders using either the Asso or Varivas ones though I do have spools with braid straight through, just decide one venue is confirmed normally.

They are fantastic bit of kit. I use them on my kompressor,

 

[Kevin3110]

They are fantastic bit of kit. I use them on my kompressor,

Mines normally strapped to a Leeda Icon FS Sport, perfect line lay with that super slow oscillation and great fun catching hounds on that setup. ?

 

[Mukiwa]

Mines normally strapped to a Leeda Icon FS Sport, perfect line lay with that super slow oscillation and great fun catching hounds on that setup. ?

If I could give you a great catch report I would.

That was the highlight this year was the hounds on FS

That line lay and oscillation is so tidy, I got the shimarno aero fx match for my lure rod, just the same look and line lay as the ultegra

 

[Valleyboy]

I usually found that once I’d cut down the tapered leader to what was needed, it just wasn’t long enough.
Some modern brands may be better, mind.

My biggest bug with braid is the nodding dog syndrome. I’ve spent years learning how species bite with mono and can usually tell with a fair degree of accuracy what’s on the end and the best time to strike/lift but the nod nod nod and every little rattle, just don’t need it.

Had it one night surf fishing, as there was braid on one shore multi following a boat trip, completely forgot it was on there.
Other was mono and as a result had to watch one nicely stable rod tip and one that wouldn’t bloody stop moving, including greatly magnified bites from tiny pest fish.
It really wound me up and I would have changed the reel if I’d had a spare or even respooled if I’d had more line

You get used to it though. You can tell a dog from a bass from a flounder. I get a lot more end tackle back using 60lb braiid and 30 lb rotten bottom and snoods than I ever thought possible. Clean ground I switch down to 30lb braid and braid leaders. Don't have any problem with wind knots with 2 speed oscilating reels