Up&Over or One-Hook Clipped Down?

[flappy]

Do sea anglers ever use bolt rigs.?

 

[RemoteWanderer]

I am starting to use the up and over more as I hope to target more rays this coming year. Do people prefer using fixed gripper leads or a rolling sinker to move about and find those holding depressions? Also, when I retrieve my rig sometimes it tangles in the casting snap that I use at the end of my leader knot or for my hook snood (so snoods are interchangeable). Is there anything I can do to mitigate this?

 

[flappy]

Is there anything I can do to mitigate this?

Have you tried golf..?..

 

[Valleyboy]

Do sea anglers ever use bolt rigs.?

Yes. just don't call them that. Any fixed rig is a bolt rig.

 

[Craig]

I am starting to use the up and over more as I hope to target more rays this coming year. Do people prefer using fixed gripper leads or a rolling sinker to move about and find those holding depressions? Also, when I retrieve my rig sometimes it tangles in the casting snap that I use at the end of my leader knot or for my hook snood (so snoods are interchangeable). Is there anything I can do to mitigate this?

I prefer using grip leads myself.

The tangles can be avoided to some extent with thicker line and less components.
I use 60lb rig body and snoods on all my up and over/pulley rigs and keep components to a minimum.
Also, the clips you're using may be causing more trouble than they're worth if they are open ended, closed clips will reduce the risk of line getting trapped in them.

 

[Live in hope]

I am starting to use the up and over more as I hope to target more rays this coming year. Do people prefer using fixed gripper leads or a rolling sinker to move about and find those holding depressions? Also, when I retrieve my rig sometimes it tangles in the casting snap that I use at the end of my leader knot or for my hook snood (so snoods are interchangeable). Is there anything I can do to mitigate this?

Like others have said swap to a plain swivel for the snood length and double pat. If you want to keep using the clip try a breakaway knot protector nip the end off and push it down over the clip it will help but would go the swivel route. Lead wise it depends where I’m fishing I use a pyramid or bomb on some venues where your searching out gullies or patches of sand in others especially with the tide runs there a grip lead with a slightly longer rig so it’s a good distance from the bait.

 

[flappy]

Yes. just don't call them that. Any fixed rig is a bolt rig.

The sort of bolt rig I am talking about is where the hook length is only about five inches long and so as the fish takes the bait it hooks itself with a circle hook due to lifting the lead.

 

[RemoteWanderer]

Appreciate the advice everyone will bear that in mind and try/experiment a few ideas when tying some new rigs. Tight lines,

 

[mojocvh]

Good subject to raise we [as a group, mostly] concentrate on the actual bits NOT doing the catching when in fact they are the most important.

I'm thinking of trying something different this spring, short dongle rigs with small circle hooks, most of the coddies and flatties are "small" and unless I catch a real keeper I try to put them back. I'm probably barking up a wrong tree here but if you don't try you don't get...have fished the area with one down two up [on cascade swivels] and it's very very effective but you get deep hooking when they sit and guzzle away...in my experiences

 

[Mr Fish]

Good subject to raise we [as a group, mostly] concentrate on the actual bits NOT doing the catching when in fact they are the most important.

I'm thinking of trying something different this spring, short dongle rigs with small circle hooks, most of the coddies and flatties are "small" and unless I catch a real keeper I try to put them back. I'm probably barking up a wrong tree here but if you don't try you don't get...have fished the area with one down two up [on cascade swivels] and it's very very effective but you get deep hooking when they sit and guzzle away...in my experiences

I really don’t give a lot of thought to rig components and types now I’ve found what works for me.
Not to say I won’t experiment but spent a lot of years refining the rigs I find work for me and mostly just making them as simple as possible.
Then buying the best rig components/hooks, or at least those I have confidence in.

Certainly longer/shorter snoods etc can make a difference at times, but one of my best double figure shore ray came on an old pulley with a 12 inch snood and whole squid - not by design, got to the mark and realised I needed to make a couple of rigs so chucked that out to at least get a bait in the water.
As I said previously, couldn’t even tell you how many ray I’ve caught on pulley rigs. A lot.

As you say, I’m more interested in being in the right place at the right time with the right conditions and best bait, rather than worrying about snood length or springs or bait clips etc etc.

They all have their place, totally, but I think as anglers we can overthink that sort of thing quite easily if we’re not careful.

 

[GPSguru]

Hi everyone, hope all is well. Starting to tie some more traces, and was just wondering what peoples preferences were to the above rigs for presenting baits with long flowing hook lengths over clean ground for rays etc.

Well, I am a 99% boat angler, with 60 years fishing behind me, however ....................

Dont get too hung up on rigs, as you will end up going down the road of the Carp angler and redefining rigs just for the sake of it.

From the shore, generally the target will dictate the rig choice, but IMHO all you are really going to need is a Pulley, clipped one up, one down, a flapper, and the basic (but often overlooked) running ledger.

On the boat, we rarely use anything other than a single hook running ledger. Maybe very rarely a simple pat for bream, and for speed that is usually done by ripping the tinsels off a size 6 mack rig !

All of my shore fishing is from an estuary, and again, I just use a simple running ledger, which has (more than once) produced almost 70 bass (1lb - 4lb) on one tide.

Concentrate on fishing location, bait placement, and bait type, before worrying about rigs, because you can't catch what isn't there

 

[concrete]

Rays don’t care how long your snood is. I’ve lost count of the amount of rays I’ve caught on 6 inch snoods. Also, the whole rays get spooked by grip wires is made up bollocks. You should see some of the ground they feed on, a piddly grip wire isn’t going to spook them.

 

[Beach]

I use a clip up or a clip down, some times a single hook pennel sort of trace.

I just use a running ledger with 4 - 6ft trace, sometimes with a grip weight depending on tide/sea etc.

 

[Hendrix02]

I am starting to use the up and over more as I hope to target more rays this coming year. Do people prefer using fixed gripper leads or a rolling sinker to move about and find those holding depressions? Also, when I retrieve my rig sometimes it tangles in the casting snap that I use at the end of my leader knot or for my hook snood (so snoods are interchangeable). Is there anything I can do to mitigate this?

As others suggested, consider switching to a plain swivel for the snood length and double pat. If you prefer using the clip, try using a breakaway knot protector by trimming the end and sliding it over the clip for added security. Lead choice varies depending on fishing conditions—use a pyramid or bomb lead when exploring gullies or sandy patches, and opt for a grip lead with a longer rig when fishing in strong tide currents.

 

[Angrybear]

Good subject to raise we [as a group, mostly] concentrate on the actual bits NOT doing the catching when in fact they are the most important.

I'm thinking of trying something different this spring, short dongle rigs with small circle hooks, most of the coddies and flatties are "small" and unless I catch a real keeper I try to put them back. I'm probably barking up a wrong tree here but if you don't try you don't get...have fished the area with one down two up [on cascade swivels] and it's very very effective but you get deep hooking when they sit and guzzle away...in my experiences

Use a disgorger, if that can't reach the hook, cut the line, release the fish & tie a new hook on

 

[wingnut55]

Use a disgorger, if that can't reach the hook, cut the line, release the fish & tie a new hook on

Talk about trying to teach people to suck eggs.

Ian.

 

[Shirleycodlin]

Talk about trying to teach people to suck eggs.

Ian.

It's surprising the number of angler's who either, A, don't know
Or B, still just rip out a hook.

 

[Mushty]

I squeeze the hook barbs down on most of my rigs to be honest, makes unhooking so much easier! Do I lose fish? I would argue not

 

[wingnut55]

I squeeze the hook barbs down on most of my rigs to be honest, makes unhooking so much easier! Do I lose fish? I would argue not

I use circles, never had a deep hook with them.

Ian.