Quiver tip "weight" testing

[Topwater]

I'm almost becoming a witness of the 8th day adventists on this one - remind me is it something along the lines if 'cast ye not a bollock, oh thee of no substance' ? Answers on no christmas cards please

 

[flappy]

I give up - the real dick-heads on here (you know who you are) show their dh-ness time and time again. Such a shame this forum has a certain retarded forum-mafia cohort !
(Any new members reading this might wish to note and re-consider ! To note, many of the retards lurk on other sea fishing forums !)

Shut the door on your way out..

 

[richtic]

What a strange chap.

 

[richtic]

I can't pin down the manufacturer spec's for my oldish 13' Daiwa Vertice freshwater ledger-type rod with fixed quiver tip ont' web. (Mentioned elsewhere; it's an un-used older fresh-water rod that I bought cheap with light saltwater bait-casting in mind given it's s/steel guides etc.)

So I've started testing and I'm a bit thrown by my quiver-tip test: even a 6oz weight has not "pulled" the Q-tip down to a 90 degree angle !
I haven't yet tried beyond 6oz because it just doesn't seem likely (from what I've read) that a f/water ledger rod's quiver tip will go beyond a 6oz test !

I've double-measured the weights used for the test: I've tested allowing for the full length of the fixed quiver tip section (2'5") and then with the quiver-tip fixed/pivoted at just 12" from the end-guide: a 6oz weight doesn't do it (90 degree tip angle) in either of those circumstances!
It just doesn't accord with any of my expectations - any thoughts please ?

[Edit: doesn't matter what use I might want to put it to - I'm just head-scratching at my tip-weight test result.]

Your never going to get the last 2 foot of a Carp rod to bend through 90 degrees unless it snaps

 

[JLD]

I'm a little reluctant to add fuel to Caskars fire but I have to confess that I too have an old Diawa blank that matches his description. It's not the same rod that he is talking about. This one started life labelled as a feeder rod, 1 - 3oz casting, but has now been rebuild for light multi with a trigger grip. I bought it off Fleabay for peanuts. The top section does look like a quiver tip has been glued in there but I can't decide if it was one of three originally or was just made like that in the first place. Not too concerned about it either. It is what it is. It never occurred to me to stick a 6oz lead on it or to try to bend any of it through 90 degrees just took it down the field and tried casting a variety of light leads to see what felt best.

 

[stan m]

Your never going to get the last 2 foot of a Carp rod to bend through 90 degrees unless it snaps

Bending to 90 degrees is not how the test curve is established, (regardless of google where they each copy and paste the previous nonsense they read from their armchair. ) I could explain it simply but as yet there are no roses growing on the Greenland ice. When they do I`ll explain

All his ignorant personal insults (on many of his threads) simply because he does not get the answers he wants

 

[Topwater]

Oxygen is wasted on such irksome gobshites.

Good riddance

 

[Shirleycodlin]

Bending to 90 degrees is not how the test curve is established, (regardless of google where they each copy and paste the previous nonsense they read from their armchair. ) I could explain it simply but as yet there are no roses growing on the Greenland ice. When they do I`ll explain

All his ignorant personal insults (on many of his threads) simply because he does not get the answers he wants

Well I am interested in tc's and how to determine them

Would you explain them to me?
In simple terms

 

[stan m]

Well I am interested in tc's and how to determine them

Would you explain them to me?
In simple terms

Since you ask so nicely Mr. Moderator sir. The 90 degrees bend with rod lying flat determines the "line class" of the rod. To establish the TC set the rod up on something, chair, bench whatever at an approximate angle of 45 degrees with line running through guides (unless you are concrete then you can put it through the rings). The line is extended some 14ft from the rod tip, (measured on the floor). Attach a sprung balance and pull until the rod tip and line form a continuity, i.e. look as one. Need to secure the rod butt with a weight or somebody holding to prevent it rising. If you want to use the "modern" dumb method lying flat and adding weights (stupid idea) then you only want the rod tip to pull down approx halfway to 90 degrees.

The above is the traditional method but it has been bastardised over the years with all sorts of daft ideas. The TC really only related to coarse rods.

 

[flappy]

Well I am interested in tc's and how to determine them

Would you explain them to me?
In simple terms

Preferably with no mention of nipples or breasts….

 

[Shirleycodlin]

Since you ask so nicely Mr. Moderator sir. The 90 degrees bend with rod lying flat determines the "line class" of the rod. To establish the TC set the rod up on something, chair, bench whatever at an approximate angle of 45 degrees with line running through guides (unless you are concrete then you can put it through the rings). The line is extended some 14ft from the rod tip, (measured on the floor). Attach a sprung balance and pull until the rod tip and line form a continuity, i.e. look as one. Need to secure the rod butt with a weight or somebody holding to prevent it rising. If you want to use the "modern" dumb method lying flat and adding weights (stupid idea) then you only want the rod tip to pull down approx halfway to 90 degrees.

The above is the traditional method but it has been bastardised over the years with all sorts of daft ideas. The TC really only related to coarse rods.

Thank you Stan.
That makes sense

 

[stan m]

Thank you Stan.
That makes sense

Don`t ask me how the 14ft was decided on (could even be 24ft can`t remember) as I do not have a clue. That method goes back to the days of split cane

 

[AlanT]

Since you ask so nicely Mr. Moderator sir. The 90 degrees bend with rod lying flat determines the "line class" of the rod. To establish the TC set the rod up on something, chair, bench whatever at an approximate angle of 45 degrees with line running through guides (unless you are concrete then you can put it through the rings). The line is extended some 14ft from the rod tip, (measured on the floor). Attach a sprung balance and pull until the rod tip and line form a continuity, i.e. look as one. Need to secure the rod butt with a weight or somebody holding to prevent it rising. If you want to use the "modern" dumb method lying flat and adding weights (stupid idea) then you only want the rod tip to pull down approx halfway to 90 degrees.

The above is the traditional method but it has been bastardised over the years with all sorts of daft ideas. The TC really only related to coarse rods.

I tested a pile of fly and carp rods using the CCS system. I was looking for a blank that would handle 600-800 grain fly lines for saltwater use. Never found the right blank but the readings I recorded were spot on for both casting weight and fly line weights. Now you can run around scoffing all you like. The method you described is also excellent for setting up reel drag tension.

 

[Topwater]

The Common Cents System is at least a regulated method of testing. A well known consultant to a large tackle company used to press fly blanks against a wall and declare their aftma rating. He was a card

 

[Kine262]

I'm a little reluctant to add fuel to Caskars fire but I have to confess that I too have an old Diawa blank that matches his description. It's not the same rod that he is talking about. This one started life labelled as a feeder rod, 1 - 3oz casting, but has now been rebuild for light multi with a trigger grip. I bought it off Fleabay for peanuts. The top section does look like a quiver tip has been glued in there but I can't decide if it was one of three originally or was just made like that in the first place. Not too concerned about it either. It is what it is. It never occurred to me to stick a 6oz lead on it or to try to bend any of it through 90 degrees just took it down the field and tried casting a variety of light leads to see what felt best.

I too have got several Daiwa feeder rods both with multi quiver and fixed tips, as well as a few barbel rods with twin tips (Avon type and quiver) but the difference between our rods and the OP's claimed Daiwa Vertice rod is that ours are not 3lb tc carp rods. The Vertice 13ft carp was a 2 piece and was also never built with either a fixed quiver or interchangeable tips, so as Casker has claimed his rod is a three section with quiver tip, it isn't a Vertice.

 

[AlanT]

I too have got several Daiwa feeder rods both with multi quiver and fixed tips, as well as a few barbel rods with twin tips (Avon type and quiver) but the difference between our rods and the OP's claimed Daiwa Vertice rod is that ours are not 3lb tc carp rods. The Vertice 13ft carp was a 2 piece and was also never built with either a fixed quiver or interchangeable tips, so as Casker has claimed his rod is a three section with quiver tip, it isn't a Vertice.

I bet you can identify the Daiwa rods in your possession not just at a glance but with what is written on the butt section. Yes Folks it really is that simple. No need for 6 oz leads or trying to dismantle it. Quite sure the OP is now off entertaining a coarse fishing forum somewhere now.

 

[AlanT]

The Common Cents System is at least a regulated method of testing. A well known consultant to a large tackle company used to press fly blanks against a wall and declare their aftma rating. He was a card

I don't see a way of identifying the TC of the rod though because that is not what you are looking for nor is there any need for it. I certainly would not want to test a 30lb line class rod with this system, I can see my Welsh dresser collapsing under the abuse.

 

[Topwater]

The CCS as far as I'm aware was developed for judging fly rod blanks, but when you measure the considerable variations in production flyline weights within a quoted aftma number/ grain weight/gram weight labelling it's still far from perfect! More of a guide at best as casting style and line designs/tapers also play a big part in deciding what line suits what rod for what angler. Its a minefield basically and I can only assume its been left that way because quietly the trade knows its an effective way of generating sales!

Test Curves as I understand it were invented by UK freshwater carp/specimen tackle makers in the 1950s? Again I see it as a guide that is far from perfect ! For instance there's a big difference between the progressive actioned pike blanks and the tip actioned 'distance' carp blanks I've built on despite the fact that they come from the same manufacturer and have been given the same TC rating.

The Line Class testing that Stan described above is also confused by the gaping difference between 'UK' ratings and IGFA ratings. This has been further confused by the more recent tendency towards wide ratings like '20/50' '80/130' etc. Where do they get these figures from? Plucked out of thin air? Can a blank be many ratings? I think not but I'll defer to Stan our man on this as this is definitely his field of expertise.

Yours
Confused and back off to work

 

[stan m]

I don't see a way of identifying the TC of the rod though because that is not what you are looking for nor is there any need for it. I certainly would not want to test a 30lb line class rod with this system, I can see my Welsh dresser collapsing under the abuse.

Simple, stand rod vertical, foot against butt. Fix spring balance to tip guide or tape to tip if not built. Pull balance over until tip is approx at 90 degrees to vertical and read the balance. If a trolling rod should read approx 2/3rds of line class so 20lb. If a short stroker should be around 1/2 so 15lb (that`s on the 30lb)

On the question of multi ratings, load of shit. Based on the above which is East coast USA IGFA ratings (W. coast slightly lighter), then a rod marked at e.g. 30/50 would pull over to 90 degrees at 20 lb and also around 33lb. These decals on rods are the Dianne Abbot versions.

 

[AlanT]

Simple, stand rod vertical, foot against butt. Fix spring balance to tip guide or tape to tip if not built. Pull balance over until tip is approx at 90 degrees to vertical and read the balance. If a trolling rod should read approx 2/3rds of line class so 20lb. If a short stroker should be around 1/2 so 15lb (that`s on the 30lb)

On the question of multi ratings, load of shit. Based on the above which is East coast USA IGFA ratings (W. coast slightly lighter), then a rod marked at e.g. 30/50 would pull over to 90 degrees at 20 lb and also around 33lb. These decals on rods are the Dianne Abbot versions.

I actually meant determining TC using CCS. Bit difficult determining TC using the above method if the rod is 13 feet long so it would need two of you or very long arms.
Of course having reached that 90 degree point if you keep on pulling at the same angle then the TC will keep on increasing and the blank will keep on bending until you end up with shards of carbon fibre. Called giving the fish the butt I do believe, rolling the power down the blank.