Cormorants

[Kine262]

as far as I’m concerned the only saving grace of cormorants on inland fisheries is unlike cats and fox’s they only mainly kill to eat. Other thing when it was legal to shoot them you never saw that many on inland fisheries and could take some lead when in flight in body.( pre 1981)

If you had seen as many big fish with cormorant stabs as I had you may not be quite so understanding of them! Some of the fish have been twice the size of any cormorant but when they get a deep stab wound they struggle to survive.

It’s also still legal to shoot them, you just have to jump through endless loops first!

 

[Trampster]

If you had seen as many big fish with cormorant stabs as I had you may not be quite so understanding of them!

Same with a bloody Heron when I had my big pond at the cottage. It would sit in the field jsut across the valley and check I wasn't around, and if the area was clear, in it would swoop. Over a few months, he ate all of the smaller Carp species, and stabbed the ones that were too big to eat, including my 2 18" Ghost Koi.

 

[Topwater]

as far as I’m concerned the only saving grace of cormorants on inland fisheries is unlike cats and fox’s they only mainly kill to eat. Other thing when it was legal to shoot them you never saw that many on inland fisheries and could take some lead when in flight in body.( pre 1981)

Bizarre statement!

 

[Cwab]

Sometimes there are things you just have to do.

How curious, how bizarre, some would say!

 

[Cwab]

If you had seen as many big fish with cormorant stabs as I had you may not be quite so understanding of them! Some of the fish have been twice the size of any cormorant but when they get a deep stab wound they struggle to survive.

It’s also still legal to shoot them, you just have to jump through endless loops first!

Fully aware of the carnage cormorants and goosanders cause along with injuries caused by both them and herons and have no love of them and was involved in management of some fisheries, and the licence process inadequate in some instances and dealing with natural England can be problematic at times, though found in the past snh were more understanding
Have shot numerous under licence ( cormorants and goosanders) but really just scratching the surface compared to pre 1981 legislation or the bad old days as some would argue, but not I.
Otters are also becoming a concern and have not helped the bittern population in Norfolk and are decimating many fisheries as you will know, but again more carp fisheries now than say thirty years ago, along along with nature talking advantage of the fact causing conflict.
Do cringe a little at suggestions of others shooting birds sat on water with a rifle as unsafe unless using a very frangible bullet not prone to skipping off water as god knows where they can go and do,we used to shoot with shotgun in flight, flighting where possible but greatly depends on circumstances clearly.
In short have no love of cormorants and some other predators in principle, but thankfully no longer something I am involved with as retired but sympathise with those that do and best of luck to them. edit. In truth it boils my urine, but the law is the law, but needs imo changing but as said, do not have a dog in the fight

 

[Cwab]

Better a moderated .22 rimfire with subsonic loads

Would run that past your feo,( firearms enquiry officer) or firearms department if doing so, just as precaution to protect yourself and ticket, and have as a condition if not already done so, some frown on the practice apparently as solids from sub sonic depending on angle will skip off water like pebble, but your choice.
If having to put on risk assessment or involving natural England possible can of worms and not good practice in the eyes of some.

 

[Cwab]

Bizarre statement!

Please elaborate, happy to discuss private message if you wish.

 

[Topwater]

You're jumping to incorrect conclusions Cwab as I never mentioned shooting them on water. If ever I need a firearms expert I'll drop you a line

 

[Cwab]

You're jumping to incorrect conclusions Cwab as I never mentioned shooting them on water. If ever I need a firearms expert I'll drop you a line

To avoid doubt never suggested or implied you personally had shot anything, anywhere, which is clear from your posts, and wish now to make that clear, but did cringe at the suggestion of it elsewhere ( post 17)on the thread and have not jumped to incorrect conclusions and wish to make that clear to avoid misunderstanding.
Regarding any possible advice you may need in the future regarding firearms I can only direct you to your local feo or firearms department, a qualified barrister who specialises in such matters, or one of the shooting organisations who if not a member you could join. Hope this clears things up for you.

 

[Cwab]

You're jumping to incorrect conclusions Cwab as I never mentioned shooting them on water. If ever I need a firearms expert I'll drop you a line

Ok, where and when would you suggest it is better to use a . 22 subsonic to shoot a cormorant under licence where you are likely to find one bar roosting in a tree or sat on water, flying perhaps? ( cliff maybe a possibility)
My only concern is safety which is no laughing matter and would be condition specific on certificate and not risk someone having their ticket revoked for shooting one believing it’s ok when not.
Again consult your feo for his advice on cormorants and firearms and let’s not forget English nature will want chapter and verse as under licence not sure how a .22 sub sonic rimfire lead bullet would be viewed either, minefield but can be navigated.
Non toxic 17hmr calibre very frangible and better suited to the task apparently, be interested to know how those shooting under licence in 2025 are finding the conditions imposed across the country and if consistent( not safety as personal to user)
Also interesting the home office guidelines to chief constables are just that with different forces having different interpretations regarding firearms and their uses. Final edit, rarely do things go horribly wrong in uk with shooting accidents or even folks having what their using checked or inspected according to small print, but never worth the risk because you would be thrown to the wolves.

 

[Cwab]

You're jumping to incorrect conclusions Cwab as I never mentioned shooting them on water. If ever I need a firearms expert I'll drop you a line

Just been in touch with a guy who has a licence from ne to shoot cormorants which has some interesting conditions,
Condition 17. Cormorants only must be shot with a 12, 16, or 20 bore shotgun, no other type of firearm must be used.

Condition 18. Shot of an appropriate size must be used, avoiding size 6 or smaller, shot and very large shot size such as bb. (though shot size 3 or 4 will normally be most appropriate.)

That is one licence in one location and no idea if this applies to every situation and make of it what you will.

So that’s me out.

 

[Topwater]

Good

 

[Exile65]

I agree completely but to be able to do so you need a special licence and the application process is pretty difficult and involves consultations with Natural England, providing evidence of how the birds are affecting your fishery, (difficult on a stretch of river) details and dates of number of birds over a prolonged period, including seasonal averages, details of other predation impacting the fishery (otters, mink, crayfish) and the experience of the person/s that will be carrying out any control. You also are then limited on how many and how often you can shoot them, as well as having to report all control carried out.

It would be easy to say just ignore all of that but the penalties are pretty harsh.

We had that licence , as you say it’s a bit of a minefield getting it , but it’s do able , our club secretary ( great friend of mine ) did all the leg work and form filling ,what did go down well and in our favour was the need to preserve the silver fish for the junior section of the club , my mate then went into chapter and verse about my extensive knowledge of firearms and how I would overseeing the use of them
We got the license ..for SIX birds ..we had dozens of the bloody things coming in every day ..we kept meticulous records of who was out shooting , what they see and what was shot ..a year later we got a renewal and they upped it to EIGHT ..We always kept the fishery very tidy and had our own little incinerator for burning waste …

 

[Exile65]

Just been in touch with a guy who has a licence from ne to shoot cormorants which has some interesting conditions,
Condition 17. Cormorants only must be shot with a 12, 16, or 20 bore shotgun, no other type of firearm must be used.

Condition 18. Shot of an appropriate size must be used, avoiding size 6 or smaller, shot and very large shot size such as bb. (though shot size 3 or 4 will normally be most appropriate.)

That is one licence in one location and no idea if this applies to every situation and make of it what you will.

So that’s me out.

We weren’t conditioned on firearms at the time 1990’s , it was on a private lake with no public rights of way , shotgun wise the three of us all used 12g ,34gr 3’s , shooting them out of their sitty tree was quite productive , and I used my 22-250 if I got there early enough to get in position so I could shoot down on them ..they do have eyes up their arse and on the backs of the heads ..