Acid / Spiral wrap boat rods?

[The Third Earl]

Hi all . Has anybody here any experience of using these ?
I am just building a 50 lb class rod for myself and was thinking of doing the above ring configurations.
It is supposed to make bringing in larger fish easier , as the multiplier does not have any side to side movement ( allegedly )
I am quite happy with the way my various other boat rods perform it is just an experiment really .

The rod I am doing is an old Daiwa , and I am using Fuji Bnog rings, all bits that have been rescued from various rebuilds over the years . It will probably get very little use apart from the odd Conger trip, or maybe a Shetland trip if I manage to to get one .

Dave

 

[Shirleycodlin]

@stan m ?

 

[Topwater]

I like spiral guides on my jigging rods that use multipliers. With a 'tangle free" tip guide line wrap is very rare though not impossible. I'm not using a gimble or belt/harness with these rods btw.
I think utilising any true spine, as found in the blank when under real load pressures, as the reference for guide alignment will be more important for heavier class gear. A gimble fitting used in a butt pad harness will go along way to removing any torsion from the reel and winding. These days we don't always need the biggger unwieldy reels of old. If your working lures with any rod and multiplier I'd give spiral buolding a good go and draw your own opinion. One thing to watch for is stowing and storing a spiral rod, they need just a little bit more care than with straight guide trains.

 

[The Third Earl]

Cheers for that TW. I agree re the large multis scenario, and the line wrap is something that is quite annoying , some anglers dont seem to experience it much , I am not one of them though .
I have never seen a spiral wrap rod used anywhere except in Y Tube videos , so its hard to gauge how effective they are really. From what I have seen and read ( mostly from the USA ) that they take a bit of getting used to, but once the user gets to grips they love them .
Its not going to cost me anything but a bit of time , so I think I will do the build and take it from there.

Dave

 

[stan m]

Hi all . Has anybody here any experience of using these ?
I am just building a 50 lb class rod for myself and was thinking of doing the above ring configurations.
It is supposed to make bringing in larger fish easier , as the multiplier does not have any side to side movement ( allegedly )
I am quite happy with the way my various other boat rods perform it is just an experiment really .

The rod I am doing is an old Daiwa , and I am using Fuji Bnog rings, all bits that have been rescued from various rebuilds over the years . It will probably get very little use apart from the odd Conger trip, or maybe a Shetland trip if I manage to to get one .

Dave

Built my fair share Dave. Couple of things to remember. 1) When checking the spine the natural bend for the tip guide should be as for a fixed spool rod, i.e. Tip guide facing down when flexed. 2) If winding the multi with right hand then the guides should transition to the left with butt guide approx 3 degrees off straight, (vice versa if left hand wind)

Reel ideally should be as low on the blank as possible, Everol actually made a reel designed 100% for acid wraps / spiral wraps (two names for same thing.

For those not familiar with the wrap the multi sits on top and the guides progress to spiral down the blank until the tip is underneath as it would be with a fixed spool. Mad geezer in California came up with the idea many years back (it works) but when first introduced they reckoned he was high on something, i.e. the term acid wrap.

Pic below was using mainly low riders, the closer to the blank the guide the better. Only need to transition the lower 3 or 4 guides, tip guides can be in line with the tiptop.

 

[flappy]

Apparently gibberish is still a language..

 

[stan m]

Apparently gibberish is still a language..

You should know.

 

[flappy]

You should know.

So have you any idea what they are talking about..?

 

[The Third Earl]

I had a feeling you might have built one or two Stan !
I decided on B nogs as I had read the rings need to sit low to the blank , and as I have quite a few kicking around they fit the bill well . There is a wealth of advice on the internet re the build and the best way to align the rings, just as you advise above .
Just need to sort out a few odds n sods and I can get cracking . No rush .

Dave

 

[stan m]

So have you any idea what they are talking about..?

Yes, read above what I just done did posted innit

 

[stan m]

I had a feeling you might have built one or two Stan !
I decided on B nogs as I had read the rings need to sit low to the blank , and as I have quite a few kicking around they fit the bill well . There is a wealth of advice on the internet re the build and the best way to align the rings, just as you advise above .
Just need to sort out a few odds n sods and I can get cracking . No rush .

Dave

Built (from memory) 12 of them. Not my cup of tea as I`m a dinosaur but seems they do work. On the pic I posted the last 3 guides before tip were all in line with the tip

 

[flappy]

Yes, read above what I just done did posted innit

Read it again and it still doesn’t make sense..

 

[The Third Earl]

Built (from memory) 12 of them. Not my cup of tea as I`m a dinosaur but seems they do work. On the pic I posted the last 3 guides before tip were all in line with the tip

One thing that did occur to me was that when the blank is rolled from the carbon and “ cooked” it must have a bit of a spiral in its makeup ,where the various thicknesses of carbon fibre matt have been laid up .
My thoughts were that spiral whipping may have the effect of “ un twisting “ the blank and maybe even unwrapping or splitting it . So far I have not seen any evidence of this .

Dave

 

[JLD]

Don't think that is a problem. Main reason for doing it is to prevent twisting of the blank which would happen if the guides were all on top. If you have a full set of bnogs you're good but they are no longer in production and it's not easy to find replacements so you might have problems replacing any in the future.

 

[Trampster]

Never heard of such a thing, but very interesting. Be great to see some pics when it's done Dave.

Interesting article on the subject:

Simple Spiral-Wrapped Rods for Alaska

Spiral-wrapped rods are built with the guides rotating around the rod blank. Find out why this method is so effective and how to wrap one.

www.fishalaskamagazine.com

 

[stan m]

One thing that did occur to me was that when the blank is rolled from the carbon and “ cooked” it must have a bit of a spiral in its makeup ,where the various thicknesses of carbon fibre matt have been laid up .
My thoughts were that spiral whipping may have the effect of “ un twisting “ the blank and maybe even unwrapping or splitting it . So far I have not seen any evidence of this .

Dave

Never heard of that being a problem Dave and there are thousands of spiral rods in use in the world. When the pre-peg is cooked all the mats become an amalgam Spine is really just the thicker line where the matt ends

 

[The Third Earl]

Well….. .

Having built up the handle section, I started on the ring placements. I taped them on as per the spiral wrap spacings, anti clockwise ,making sure that there was no place where the line touched the blank.
I screwed a multi onto the rod butt , assembled the rod and put the line through the rings . Everything was in the right place . I clipped on a weight onto the line and gave it an experimental waggle .

Hated it . It does not look right, it does not feel right . I suppose you could describe it a bit like suddenly going from a Manual gear change to an Automatic, with a dose of left hand drive ,wearing somebody elses glasses and being pissed all at the same time . After a while I am sure I would get used to it , maybe.

I just could not get it into my head that it was a fishing rod, it looked like anything but what I am used to and have used for the last 50 years plus. I will admit it , I am like Stan, Old School if you like.

The rod behaved as it should have done, the weight hanging “under” kept the reel balanced and seemed to stop any rocking from side to side. In fact if you did not look at the rod whilst holding it I am sure it would be fine, but the vision of those rings spiralling around the rod anti clockwise was just too much for me. Life is too short .

I stripped the rings off the blank, and tomorrow I will get on with the build, the build being a standard 50 lb class boat rod.

So thanks everybody for the imput, I cannot show you any photos, but if you want to see what a spiral wrapped rod looks like go to 1.min 18 secs of the below video, the guy has a spiral wrapped rod , although his is rung clockwise it is just the same principle.

Dave

 

[stan m]

Well….. .

Having built up the handle section, I started on the ring placements. I taped them on as per the spiral wrap spacings, anti clockwise ,making sure that there was no place where the line touched the blank.
I screwed a multi onto the rod butt , assembled the rod and put the line through the rings . Everything was in the right place . I clipped on a weight onto the line and gave it an experimental waggle .

Hated it . It does not look right, it does not feel right . I suppose you could describe it a bit like suddenly going from a Manual gear change to an Automatic, with a dose of left hand drive ,wearing somebody elses glasses and being pissed all at the same time . After a while I am sure I would get used to it , maybe.

I just could not get it into my head that it was a fishing rod, it looked like anything but what I am used to and have used for the last 50 years plus. I will admit it , I am like Stan, Old School if you like.

The rod behaved as it should have done, the weight hanging “under” kept the reel balanced and seemed to stop any rocking from side to side. In fact if you did not look at the rod whilst holding it I am sure it would be fine, but the vision of those rings spiralling around the rod anti clockwise was just too much for me. Life is too short .

I stripped the rings off the blank, and tomorrow I will get on with the build, the build being a standard 50 lb class boat rod.

So thanks everybody for the imput, I cannot show you any photos, but if you want to see what a spiral wrapped rod looks like go to 1.min 18 secs of the below video, the guy has a spiral wrapped rod , although his is rung clockwise it is just the same principle.

Dave

Told you.

PS "rod torque" is eliminated the minute you fit the gimbal into the butt pad or chair gimbal holder.

 

[Topwater]

Told you all so in my initial post. Strictly speaking the torsion is not eliminated but transferred via the gimbal pin, its the felt effect that disappears

 

[The Third Earl]

Hi Chaps…..My butt pad is circa 1930”s full leather, nice felt padding with no crossbar, and a lovely thing it is too . I only use it once a blue moon, or maybe twice if I am unlucky , so there will always be that chance of rod twist.
But, I have had conger to 70lbs using it and had no problems, so I dont see anything I am likley to latch onto will give me any grief really.

Got the rod re whipped , look like a fishing rod should do now.

Dave