Rod Compression

[Mickfish]

As someone returning to his sea fishing roots at the age of 72 I dusted down the sea fishing tackle I bought some years ago: Shakespeare 14' Extreme Blue Metal fs - 4-8 0z; Grey's BZe Bass 11' 6" 2/3 oz; Shakespeare Odessa Flattie 10'/ Reels include an old Abu Ambassador 7000 I use for light boat fishing, an Abu 6500 mag (both have level winds) an original old Daiwa Millionaire converted to tournament style and Shimano fs Biomaster 8000. All tackle is in good nick but I will be re-oiling/greasing the reels. Braid on the fs and 0.33 good mono on the multipliers with suitable shock leaders.

I've just had some refresher lessons in off the ground casting and what I've found is the big Shakespeare feels like it is controlling me. I've not yet cast again with the two smaller rods. I know distance isn't everything and in some contexts short casting is the way to go. But if I think to my salmon fly fishing I never fish with 15' rods as I feel I can not compress them effectively. I am 5' 7" and a 14' or 13' salmon fly rod rod is very much under my control in that I can compress it effectively and consistently achieve good casting results.

I've been watching lots of casting videos on Your Tube and one by a much older John Holden struck me as he said (and I paraphrase), if you find a shorter rod that you can cast effectively with then stick to that as you probably achieve more consistent results. As I've said, in my salmon fishing, this is a philosophy I agree with with. I may enlarge my rod range and understand the massive development of more through actioned continental rods and fs combos which allow the average Joe like me to attain good results but there is again the length/compression issue. Or, there may be an attraction in a rod like the AFAW 4 plus bait, or even their estuary rod. So I'm just thinking allowed and have penned these thoughts into words. I am based in Warrington and my fishing is going to be based on Mersey/Dee estuaries, North Wales and Lancashire coasts. I would appreciate any comments by anglers more experienced than me on the issue of angler height, rod length and compression ability when casting please.

Mick

 

[Goatfish]

Hi Mick. I’m a similar age and size! I have a pair of Blue Metals 15’ that I bought off e bay several years ago. I had previously used 12’ then 13’ rods and found the jump up to 15’ really weird. I just couldn’t swing as fast so once I had learned this and slowed down a bit, casting was easier and I was getting a little further with less effort. At 10 st I am never going to be a big caster!
I did spend money on a new Century Blackbird 15’, ten years ago thinking I would buy distance. Wrong! It hurt my back, hated it. sat in the garage and I sold it cheap a couple of years ago.

 

[Mickfish]

Thanks so much for that very interesting response. As I said I was just having a brief casting lesson and I need to spend more time on my own and persisting with the Shakespeares. John Holden also summed up your key point by saying you will cast better if you slow down and keep everything smooth. My main problem seem to be in not tucking the rod butt in in the final stage of the cast to really compress the rod and then unleash its stored up power. That is strange because it is second nature to me when salmon casting with a fly rod. But a shore rod is a very different beast for sure. I have loaded one of my Biomaster spools with 15lb Daiwa J braid and an 80lb braid shock leader and I was using much thicker mainline braid at the time of the casting lesson. It will be intesting to see if that gives me extra yards. But practice is the key for me now, especially with your own Robert the Bruce breakthrough with the Shakespeares.

BTW I hope that things are fine in Lincolnshire, a pretty county I used to pass through an awful lot when travelling from the North East (home) to University at Norwich, passing places like Spalding and Sleaford and many of those beautiful wool churches. And then there is the beautiful citadel of the County capital, of course.

Mick

 

[Valleyboy]

You don't want to go too light if you plan on fishing the Dee and the Mersey. You won;t
Have you tried reel down. Makes it a lot more user friendly

 

[Mickfish]

No I haven't tried reel down but I will try it now. Do you mean don't go too light because of strong tides or rocky bottoms or both? And thanks for the reply.

 

[Valleyboy]

No I haven't tried reel down but I will try it now. Do you mean don't go to light because of strong tides or rocky bottoms or both? And thanks for the reply.

Both of them and the vegetation. I wouldn't go as low as 15lb with the braid, not there. 30lb and 60+lb leader or 60lb braid straight through

 

[Mickfish]

Thanks for that.

Mick

 

[Goatfish]

Thanks so much for that very interesting response. As I said I was just having a brief casting lesson and I need to spend more time on my own and persisting with the Shakespeares. John Holden also summed up your key point by saying you will cast better if you slow down and keep everything smooth. My main problem seem to be in not tucking the rod butt in in the final stage of the cast to really compress the rod and then unleash its stored up power. That is strange because it is second nature to me when salmon casting with a fly rod. But a shore rod is a very different beast for sure. I have loaded one of my Biomaster spools with 15lb Daiwa J braid and an 80lb braid shock leader and I was using much thicker mainline braid at the time of the casting lesson. It will be intesting to see if that gives me extra yards. But practice is the key for me now, especially with your own Robert the Bruce breakthrough with the Shakespeares.

BTW I hope that things are fine in Lincolnshire, a pretty county I used to pass through an awful lot when travelling from the North East (home) to University at Norwich, passing places like Spalding and Sleaford and many of those beautiful wool churches. And then there is the beautiful citadel of the County capital, of course.

Mick

Hi Mick.
I learnt the overhead thump from my Dad about sixty years ago and never changed.
I understand how once mastered, the off the ground cast will give more distance as it loads the rod. I went to a casting club open day a few years ago and chaps were almost hitting 200m using it. I had a few goes as shown but never persevered and have never used it whilst fishing.
I’ve been in mid Lincs ( foot of The Wolds) for almost 40 years now but would have often been stumbling around drunk in Norwich on a Saturday night at the same time as you were studying at UEA as I lived near East Dereham at that time.

 

[chesilpete]

There are a few bits in your collection that are still pretty good and usable.
I would consider a few simple changes simply because things have moved on.
Your shakespeare metal and your biomaster although old are absolutely usable.
The issue loading new micro braid on that reel is the linelay.
I think you would be better off loading with some 15lb daiwa tournament and a tapered leader.
I reckon even if you switch to brand new gear your additional distance will be around 10%.
That old daiwa multi paired with the greys bze is also a nice pairing, both items are a bit of a classic.
The problem with getting old is that everything we do just gets harder.
If your flush then go spend some cash.... given your age and lack of recent experience I would look to find a decent conti rod and a decent fixed spool reel that can easily cope with braid.
The simple distance and improved bite detection you will get will make you feel the investment was worth while.
The AFAW rod offers you little improvement imo.

 

[Mickfish]

Hi Mick.
I learnt the overhead thump from my Dad about sixty years ago and never changed.
I understand how once mastered, the off the ground cast will give more distance as it loads the rod. I went to a casting club open day a few years ago and chaps were almost hitting 200m using it. I had a few goes as shown but never persevered and have never used it whilst fishing.
I’ve been in mid Lincs ( foot of The Wolds) for almost 40 years now but would have often been stumbling around drunk in Norwich on a Saturday night at the same time as you were studying at UEA as I lived near East Dereham at that time.

Thanks for that lovely post. Don't mention being drunk in Norwich it brings back some hideous memories on my part. But Norwich and Norfolk were wonderful and the people were so friendly. A few of us booked some cod fishing out of Yarmouth and we caught a few but I was sea sick, something that doesn't happen now as my inner ear sensitivity has pretty much gone after many flights here and there.

Yes the overhead thump was my mainstay cast as fishing from the piers in Sunderland you didn't have to cast far to get deeper water.

Mick

 

[Mickfish]

There are a few bits in your collection that are still pretty good and usable.
I would consider a few simple changes simply because things have moved on.
Your shakespeare metal and your biomaster although old are absolutely usable.
The issue loading new micro braid on that reel is the linelay.
I think you would be better off loading with some 15lb daiwa tournament and a tapered leader.
I reckon even if you switch to brand new gear your additional distance will be around 10%.
That old daiwa multi paired with the greys bze is also a nice pairing, both items are a bit of a classic.
The problem with getting old is that everything we do just gets harder.
If your flush then go spend some cash.... given your age and lack of recent experience I would look to find a decent conti rod and a decent fixed spool reel that can easily cope with braid.
The simple distance and improved bite detection you will get will make you feel the investment was worth while.
The AFAW rod offers you little improvement imo.

Thank you so much for that very constructive and detailed post. May I ask a question about Conti rods. If I'm looking for one with a more parabolic/forgiving action (that is also relatively light) what would you and other members on here recommend? I've looked at the Tronixpro and Vercelli continentals on Veals but the brief descriptions of individual rods on their website aren't that informative and if I buy one I want it to be the right choice. So all help in this direction would be most welcome. Because I have three spools with the Biomaster one of them is loaded with 40lb Power Pro btw which might be better for strength and line lay. And BTW you're so right about the getting old/difficulty bit but getting out on the surf or rivers with your mates is still quite wonderful.

Mick

 

[chesilpete]

Thank you so much for that very constructive and detailed post. May I ask a question about Conti rods. If I'm looking for one with a more parabolic/forgiving action (that is also relatively light) what would you and other members on here recommend? I've looked at the Tronixpro and Vercelli continentals on Veals but the brief descriptions of individual rods on their website aren't that informative and if I buy one I want it to be the right choice. So all help in this direction would be most welcome. Because I have three spools with the Biomaster one of them is loaded with 40lb Power Pro btw which might be better for strength and line lay. And BTW you're so right about the getting old/difficulty bit but getting out on the surf or rivers with your mates is still quite wonderful.

Mick

Hi Mick,
If you go down the conti rod pathway you can use your existing reels but I think if you are in mixed ground you are better off with nylon.
The reason is simple the biomasters are great reels but technology moved on and new mid range reels have a much better line management. If you pull hard on a biomaster with 30lb braid it will bite into itself.
So if your going for a rod I would also go for a reel.
Although I use contis for some of my fishing I am definitely not the Oracle on them.
I use italcanna OTGs and high end shimano baitrunners and unless you are flush then they are too expensive for a speculative purchase.
I would open a thread on here asking people what they own or have owned under 200 quid for a rod and 125 for a reel.
Good recommendations are what you want the conti rod market is bonkers.
Remember you already have a perfectly serviceable set up with the metal and a biomaster.....
It's always worth looking at the 2nd hand market too.... some bargains out there.
@Tournamag hopefully he will comment, as far as I am concerned this is his domain.

 

[DaveH]

Yes the overhead thump was my mainstay cast as fishing from the piers in Sunderland you didn't have to cast far to get deeper water.

Mick

It's how we rolled back in the day! I looked at the gates on the pier at Roker whilst on a visit a couple of years ago. If you remember, we used to climb around the guard on the outside of the gates when they were locked. How in Gods name did we manage to do that?

 

[Mickfish]

Hi Mick,
If you go down the conti rod pathway you can use your existing reels but I think if you are in mixed ground you are better off with nylon.
The reason is simple the biomasters are great reels but technology moved on and new mid range reels have a much better line management. If you pull hard on a biomaster with 30lb braid it will bite into itself.
So if your going for a rod I would also go for a reel.
Although I use contis for some of my fishing I am definitely not the Oracle on them.
I use italcanna OTGs and high end shimano baitrunners and unless you are flush then they are too expensive for a speculative purchase.
I would open a thread on here asking people what they own or have owned under 200 quid for a rod and 125 for a reel.
Good recommendations are what you want the conti rod market is bonkers.
Remember you already have a perfectly serviceable set up with the metal and a biomaster.....
It's always worth looking at the 2nd hand market too.... some bargains out there.
@Tournamag hopefully he will comment, as far as I am concerned this is his domain.

Thank you again for your very helpful post. I will follow up on your advice.

 

[Mickfish]

It's how we rolled back in the day! I looked at the gates on the pier at Roker whilst on a visit a couple of years ago. If you remember, we used to climb around the guard on the outside of the gates when they were locked. How in Gods name did we manage to do that?

Hello Dave, yes we broke a lot of rules for sure. I used to fish the raised head of the main Pier and cast from No 8 I think into the estuary. I used to buy some squid from Bolton fish market and when I visited my parents I would get some black lug and use a cocktail bait and I had some nice codling. I also fished Seaham harbour at times.

What I liked about Roker is how you could pop up to the "little Bungalow" cafe next to the public toilets and warm yourself up with a cup of tea and a pasty and get the odd bit of terminal tackle if you needed it. I still remember the main tackle and bait shops in the town but I guess they have gone now.

Happy days!

Mick

 

[DaveH]

Hello Dave, yes we broke a lot of rules for sure. I used to fish the raised head of the main Pier and cast from No 8 I think into the estuary. I used to buy some squid from Bolton fish market and when I visited my parents I would get some black lug and use a cocktail bait and I had some nice codling. I also fished Seaham harbour at times.

What I liked about Roker is how you could pop up to the "little Bungalow" cafe next to the public toilets and warm yourself up with a cup of tea and a pasty and get the odd bit of terminal tackle if you needed it. I still remember the main tackle and bait shops in the town but I guess they have gone now.

Happy days!

Mick

The town has changed beyond recognition. Happily I live in Mid-Wales now, but I do miss the pier at Roker! I have a couple of years on you, and my sea fishing aspirations are a little lower. I mostly fish fresh water these days.

 

[Mickfish]

The town has changed beyond recognition. Happily I live in Mid-Wales now, but I do miss the pier at Roker! I have a couple of years on you, and my sea fishing aspirations are a little lower. I mostly fish fresh water these days.

Dave I still visit the town and it is so different as you say. I do lots of freshwater fishing too but being in Mid-Wales you must have access to some good bass fishing? I had some good marks pointed out to me in the Dovey estuary.

Mick

 

[DaveH]

Dave I still visit the town and it is so different as you say. I do lots of freshwater fishing too but being in Mid-Wales you must have access to some good bass fishing? I had some good marks pointed out to me in the Dovey estuary.

Mick

I spent a season trying to catch a bass at Aberystwyth. Had plucks, but nothing more. Same story with pike and sea-trout previous to that, but I persevered and eventually worked out how to catch them. Next year will do it I think. Are you from Sunderland originally Mick?

 

[Trampster]

Excellent advice from @chesilpete.
I too would recommend having a look at the 2nd hand market, Gumtree often having some bargains.
I would recommend Grauvell Vertix Conti rods but sadly they went bust a few years ago. I've got a couple of 4.5 metre ones and love 'em. I was lucky and picked one uo from eBay at 20% of RRP new. There are still some new ones about but silly money being asked.
Good luck anyway!