Lots of food but very shallow.

[Mickfish]

When I was walking with a friend along some of the beaches south of Southport I noticed at a lowish tide the massive quantities of ‘spent’ razor clam, cockle and mussel shells and worm casts. Yet I know these beaches are renowned for their very, very gentle gradients. Indeed, I guess even with a very long cast you might only be fishing into two or three feet of water. So I wondered as the tide comes in would fish, especially, flounder and possibly bass follow it to have access to live shell fish and worms, even in such shallow water? I know many book guides just dismiss these shallow beach fishing areas of the Lancashire coast. Of course, there were gullies and hollows which would act as the usual ‘roadways’ for fish and traps for food. As a novice, should I avoid fishing such beaches unless with more experienced anglers who know when and how to retreat safely as the tide comes in?

When watching a Rick Stein programme a few weeks back, the last remaining shrimp netter using a tractor had thornbacks and flounders amongst his shrimp catch at low water in Morecambe Bay. But he had a vehicle and years of experience to beat a hasty retreat before the tide turned. Stein himself wisely didn’t venture from the shore. But it made me think that with an ample food supply would shallow water really deter fish, as those thornbacks and flounder weren’t deterred, though he was working the lowest tide (not sure what type of tide) into what might have been deeper and more featured water.

Mick

 

[Goatfish]

In the summer months Mick, when Bass visit the Lincolnshire coast we often walk out about half a mile into The Wash at low water when the sand is exposed. We dig our worms and set up as the tide is moving at an alarming rate inwards. High tripods, very light tackle, 1.5 oz weights. Bit off putting and not for the faint hearted, at hw we will be fishing with the water above our waists and land ahoy some half a mile behind us!
The point of my post is that on the ebb with no more than 18” of water we are still often catching…..the bass are still there.

 

[Wolf]

I have caught my best bass,& flatties in water less than 3 feet deep.

 

[Mickfish]

In the summer months Mick, when Bass visit the Lincolnshire coast we often walk out about half a mile into The Wash at low water when the sand is exposed. We dig our worms and set up as the tide is moving at an alarming rate inwards. High tripods, very light tackle, 1.5 oz weights. Bit off putting and not for the faint hearted, at hw we will be fishing with the water above our waists and land ahoy some half a mile behind us!
The point of my post is that on the ebb with no more than 18” of water we are still often catching…..the bass are still there.

Thanks for the reply but the key assumption I am making is that before you started fishing this area following the tide right out someone must have shown you the key elements of a safe retreat. Also you wisely state that you fish as a group.
But I can now see in such clean beaches how a light continental set up would be a dream.

Mick

 

[Goatfish]

Thanks for the reply but the key assumption I am making is that before you started fishing this area following the tide right out someone must have shown you the key elements of a safe retreat. Also you wisely state that you fish as a group.
But I can now see in such clean beaches how a light continental set up would be a dream.

Mick

Hi Mick. Yes I always go with at least one other person ( would never go by myself, although he often does!). The first time I went, it was a little choppy and the waves were slopping over the top of my chesties ( I’m the same height as you but my colleague is 6’ 3”!) I got bloody frozen and miserable. Now I always try and set up on an area that is slightly higher than the surrounding acres of flat sand…..as they say, every inch counts!
Luckily there are no creeks or dips behind us so we know at a push the retreat would always get gradually shallower, firm sand too.
We actually use our spinning rods and 4000 size reels so every fish is fun. My mate always fishes 3 rods and often all three are rattling at the same time.

 

[chesilpete]

I agree most of my big bass have come in under 4ft or on steep beaches under 10 yards.
I would try a flounder hunt this time of year.

 

[Valleyboy]

Never fished it but walked it once and it looked like a beast of a beach to fish. Further south towards liverpool the beaches are a bit better. Same sort of thing but less dynamic. They tend to fish best either side of low water. A couple of feet of water is fine if conditions are right.

 

[chesilpete]

Hi Mick. Yes I always go with at least one other person ( would never go by myself, although he often does!). The first time I went, it was a little choppy and the waves were slopping over the top of my chesties ( I’m the same height as you but my colleague is 6’ 3”!) I got bloody frozen and miserable. Now I always try and set up on an area that is slightly higher than the surrounding acres of flat sand…..as they say, every inch counts!
Luckily there are no creeks or dips behind us so we know at a push the retreat would always get gradually shallower, firm sand too.
We actually use our spinning rods and 4000 size reels so every fish is fun. My mate always fishes 3 rods and often all three are rattling at the same time.

Love my old john Wilson avon rods for super light work it's so much fun to see the tip smack round.

 

[Mickfish]

Never fished it but walked it once and it looked like a beast of a beach to fish. Further south towards liverpool the beaches are a bit better. Same sort of thing but less dynamic. They tend to fish best either side of low water. A couple of feet of water is fine if conditions are right.

The area was south of Formby with massive expanses of sand. There is clearly food availability for fish but shallow CLEAR water may deter them because they would be vulnerable. In his excellent book on shore fishing, Mike Thrussel calls these lee beaches and stresses the need to search out features like gullies and hollows to determine likely areas where fish would gather. But I get the feeling, that as you say, many anglers give them a wide birth to concentrate on the Mersey estuary (both banks) proper.

Mick

 

[Goatfish]

Love my old john Wilson avon rods for super light work it's so much fun to see the tip smack round.

My mate often uses barbel rods when we fish there……real tippy.

 

[Mickfish]

My mate often uses barbel rods when we fish there……real tippy.

I have a carp creeper rod of 11’ and very light which might be a suitable rod with my Saragossa reel or even one of my pike baitrunners. It’s just an exploratory thing whilst taking no chances safety wise. Which is why the beaches nearer Liverpool might be a more sensible starting point.

Mick

 

[Mickfish]

Love my old john Wilson avon rods for super light work it's so much fun to see the tip smack round.

And if flounders are the main quarry, with a light rod and reel in hand you can keep
'teasing' the bait along the bottom to appeal to their inquisitive nature.

Mick

 

[Warby72]

I guess it's species dependent, I've caught sea trout and mullet in ankle depth water on the west coast of Scotland. At times the mullet in particular feed in water so shallow their backs are exposed.

 

[Topwater]

I live on the opposite side of the Ribble estuary to Southport. As you say most shore anglers give it a wide birth as it is so flat and featureless and due to the amount of walking involved along with the risk sinking sand. I haven’t measured it but it looks several miles from shore to the LW line on a big spring ebb, certainly more than StAnnes even. Like other areas of the Liverpool and Morecambe bays spring flood tides absolutely race in making it a dangerous place to walk never mind attempt to fish. Fishing HW over that way in a boat is a different matter and can be good at times in the ever changing gullies and sand banks, but most of it is regarded as barren and flat as a billiard table. Can be a good area to collect bait or lay a night line but for shore angling I'd look elsewhere. Feel free to drop me a PM if you want to chat more

 

[Angrybear]

If you do fish a very shallow beach, rotten bottoms can help,
A lead can bury itself to a good depth, hitting soft sand/mud in shallow water.

 

[Mickfish]

I live on the opposite side of the Ribble estuary to Southport. As you say most shore anglers give it a wide birth as it is so flat and featureless and due to the amount of walking involved along with the risk sinking sand. I haven’t measured it but it looks several miles from shore to the LW line on a big spring ebb, certainly more than StAnnes even. Like other areas of the Liverpool and Morecambe bays spring flood tides absolutely race in making it a dangerous place to walk never mind attempt to fish. Fishing HW over that way in a boat is a different matter and can be good at times in the ever changing gullies and sand banks, but most of it is regarded as barren and flat as a billiard table. Can be a good area to collect bait or lay a night line but for shore angling I'd look elsewhere. Feel free to drop me a PM if you want to chat more

Thanks for that. Have you done some You Tube films on boat fishing these areas by any chance? Certainly one guy from Fylde Boat Anglers has. And experienced boat anglers don’t need to worry about jelly sand or powerful tides. But I return to my original point which was the massive quantities of shell fish shells and lots of worm casts. As I say above this was in the Formby area. And when freshwater fishing, say for river trout, we have a saying, foam (lanes) = food ( trapped insects) = fish. That’s what got me thinking. But the potential dangers for any elderly novice on these beaches are enough to convince to look at safer options. But if the shell fish beds (and shrimp) are only in 2/3 feet of water would even a boat angler be able to exploit them? In sum, would this be virgin fishing because conditions work against their effective exploitation by the angler on the shore or on the boat? If only we could use drones with cameras able to penetrate below the shallows in close quarters to tell us definitively are fish there in numbers as the tide floods or not.

Finally, I have a book on fly fishing for sea fish in the UK and Europe. Numerous contributors explain their tactics for catching a variety of sea fish on the fly. One chapter was by Martin James, who used to host a fishing programme on Radio Lancashire. His focus was on flounder and he explained his method of using a weighted fly like a “ gotcha”. With dumbell eyes, if my memory serves me well. He would practice thus method in a small estuary on the north Lancashire coast - I actually worked out which one. And rather like a bone fish angler he would twitch the fly to create little puffs of sand or mud. It worked in attracting flounder to give him excellent sport on a lightish fly rod.

And as a post scriptum to my ‘finally,’ when I was a lad fishing the river wear in Sunderland for flounder, I would buy mackerel from the many wet fish shops at that time. I would fillet it and cut it into strips then salt it overnight to toughen it. Of course, these strips exuded lots of moisture. So I reckoned that a lot of the juices and blood would have been lost. But I did have a nice tough bait that stayed on the hooks. But before I cast it into the known sand and mud banks on the river I would annoint each strip with copious amounts of pilchard oil. The flounder loved it and I caught many decent size fish. The only disappointment to a young angler wanting to impress his parents with his catches was how indifferent the taste of flounder was on the plate. Better to see it as a sport fish and not a table one.

Mick

 

[Topwater]

Apologies Mickfish - I missed the 'south of' bit in your opening post, sorry!. It's amazing the ammount of cast shellfish that can accumulate on thebeaches around here. Starr Gate can see unbelievable masses of blood razor at times and the Foulnaze cockle beds are infamous. Formby does attract a few anglers in the right conditions I'm told, but Is not somewhere I've fished myself as I've plenty to go at on this side of the bay and its quite a drive round there from me. I will fish the Mersey for codling in the winter when it's good - they can be in there but not showing on the Fylde and vice versa. I used to enjoy uptiding on there too back in the days of Size Matters before Kev went full time with Anglers World.

Martin is a friend of mine. He's still fishing and active like no other octogenarian I know. The man is almost super human! Unfortunately his eyesight is restricting him now. He still runs the Eddisford beat on the Ribble. I take rods on the Ribble occasionally but fish the Hodder more often. We should start another post on the potential of flyfishing for flounder! They are far more avctive predators than many give them credit for and as you say can give great sport on the righg tackle. On my side they can frankly be a nuisance on baits aimed at round fish like bass and codling at times. A pal of mine is the mudshark addict in the lower tidal reaches just as the river becomes saltmarsh. He catches several 2lb plus fluke each year. I've had odd ones take lures meant for bass.